Episode 2 – Innovation and Leadership with Entrepreneur Josh Linkner

Welcome to the TRSA podcast. Providing interviews and insights from the linen, uniform, and facility services industry. Most Americans might not realize it, but they benefit at least once per week from the cleanliness and safety of laundered, reusable linens, uniforms, towels, mats and other products provided by various businesses and organizations. T RSA represents the companies that supply, launder, and maintain linens and uniforms. And in this podcast, we will bring the thought leaders of the industry to you.

 

Thanks for tuning in to the first episode of the brand new TRSA podcast, interviews and insights. This podcast will keep you up to date on the latest news from the linen, uniform, and facility services industry and seek to help you gain insights to help build your business in an increasingly competitive industry. On the first episode of the show, we’re going to talk about innovation and specifically how your company can use innovation to boost productivity and drive results. Our guest today is Josh Linkner, who recently spoke at TRSA’s inaugural leadership summit in Chicago. Linkner’s keynote address titled harnessing innovation, turning raw ideas into powerful results was well received by the audience of 125 CEOs and senior executives, young executives, and emerging leaders.

 

A tech entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and New York Times best selling author, Linkner joined the podcast to share how laundry companies can use innovation to their advantage as well as his experience serving as a mentor to up and coming tech entrepreneurs. If you like what you hear today, please make sure to subscribe to the show on Itunes. So your talk at TRC’s Leadership Summit in Chicago is on innovation. How important to a company’s ultimate success is its ability to harness innovation and its employees? Well, I think it’s mission critical.

 

And today more than ever because today, we are living at unprecedented times. You know, today, we have a world of dizzying speed, exponential complexity, and worthless competition. And so for a company, many of the competitive advantages that people have enjoyed in the past have really become commoditized. You know, you you can no longer control geography or price or distribution, and so, really, what you what it gets down to is the one thing that can’t be outsourced or automated is human creativity. And so to me, if a company can harness that, they can can harness the brainpower and and innovative abilities of of the entire organization.

 

That’s what creates sustainable success. That becomes the most powerful weapon, to fight back competitors and ultimately to grow. And who should drive innovation in the company’s workforce? You know, the word innovation is one of those overwhelming words, and and sometimes we have a misconception that it only applies to people in r and d or in the c suite. We have an opportunity to create environments that foster everyday innovation, which means that no matter where someone falls on an org chart, they can deploy innovation in the context of their own work.

 

So you can be innovative in the way you run a Monday morning meeting or the way you call on a new prospect if you’re in sales or the way you you manage client complaints if you’re in customer service. The the answer to your question is that, ideally, it’s driven from the top and and the organization creates a culture that’s supportive of innovation. But in terms of whose job it is, I think it’s everybody’s job. And so it’s not relegated to only a few job functions. In a in a perfect world, everyone in the organization is deploying their own gifts of creativity because that’s what moves the needle.

 

And how do you think executives in the laundry industry can use innovation as a tool to drive success in their operations? Well, you know, it’s funny. Again, people think of innovation only tied to product innovation. So you might say, well, look, if I’m in the laundry industry, I can only I can’t control certain things. You know, I can’t control products or something.

 

But I think that, there there’s always a situation where there are certain things that we can and can’t control. And so I think that folks in the laundry industry can can instead of, getting tied up in the things that are beyond their control, focus on things that are within their control. And those things could range from employment practices or hiring and recruiting. Again, range in terms of how we we, bring our our products and and and services to market or really anywhere in between. So, again, I think it’s easy to get caught up in in things that are immovable.

 

My my opinion is that there’s always an opportunity to express creativity. So innovation can be a wide ranging, thing then. It can include also hiring practices, you’re saying? Can include hiring practices. It can include logistics.

 

It can include the the way that you maintain, you know, laundry facility or anywhere in between. So again, I think it’s not only about inventing some new whiz bang thing nor is it about an innovation that transforms our whole industry. The people again often get caught up on innovation that something isn’t innovative unless it’s a game changer. But I think that we can be innovative on a daily basis and but you can you can be innovative in the way you give a performance review to a colleague. And so if you think about innovation like that as a daily habit, not a game changing, you know, change change the whole industry, it’s liberating.

 

And and it it means that innovation is accessible to everybody, throughout the entire industry. So you speak to many industry groups and businesses. What are some companies that you see that are using innovation effectively to drive results for their business? Well, I when I have the chance to to, you know, speak, with with this group, I always like finding interesting ideas and and sharing, stories that are are unheard of. People don’t don’t know.

 

So, like, for example, everybody knows that Apple is innovative and Uber and Netflix. That’s a bit of a cliche. So I like finding stories of people all over the world that are using innovation in in bold delays. So who is who is innovative today? Boy, there there’s so many cool companies.

 

I think the, the whole Blaze Pizza is pretty cool where they’re bringing a whole new concept to market, which is sort of like Qdoba for pizza. I think that, that, there’s interesting transformation really in just about just about every industry. I even look at some cool things happening in manufacturing where where people are using new technologies like Internet of Things and augmented reality to change the way that the business is run. And so that’s what I’m I’m looking forward to doing, is sharing ideas that are, less known, but equally impactful. And you founded and served as the CEO of 5 technology companies, and now you invest in mentor startups.

 

How satisfying is it for you to serve as a mentor for these entrepreneurs? You know, it’s satisfying beyond what I can even express in words because, first of all, there’s the creative element of helping a start up gain traction. And to a degree, there’s a gravitational force that that, is against start ups compared to big companies. And then but when you help a start up break through that gravitational pull, it’s really rewarding. But not only is it rewarding, like, personally and economically and stuff, it’s also rewarding because those are the people that move, our economy and our and our civilization forward.

 

Because if a start up goes from nothing and and all of a sudden they they create a 100 jobs or a 1000 jobs, you know, then those people are buying local apartments and eating at local restaurants and, you know, supporting the community. So as an as an engine of economic prosperity, the impact of entrepreneurship is far beyond, you know, some some kid in the hoodie getting rich off of his idea. It’s it really makes a much broader impact in our world, and and it’s really a privilege and an honor to be a part of that. And when you were starting in business, was there anybody that served as your mentor? You know, I did.

 

I had a couple mentors that were very helpful to me, and, you know, I I owe them incredible amounts of gratitude. But I would say that I I did a bad job of cultivating a mentor network even though I had a few. If I was doing it over, I would do very few things differently. But one thing is I would’ve reached out and tried to cultivate, more mentorship support because I think it would have helped me to accelerate faster and and avoid pitfalls along the way. And so you think that that’s very important to have a mentor to help shape an employee’s future success in the business world?

 

I think it’s helpful. I mean, I don’t think it’s, you know, a must have, but I think it’s helpful because why not learn from the wisdom of the past? And, obviously, the past isn’t necessarily being repeated especially in today’s rate of change, but there are patterns that that, that you can learn. I mean, I sit on the board of several companies, and companies, and sometimes I’ll see them about to make a decision, which on the surface is totally logical. It makes all the sense to the world.

 

But having gone through it, you recognize the pattern. You can see they’re about to fall into a trap. And so then you can help them say, wait a minute. Let’s back up. Let’s look at this slightly differently.

 

Maybe we can achieve the same outcome in a slightly different way, and and you help them avoid that trap and and seize opportunity. And so I think that the the insight and the wisdom of of a mentor, it can is can be invaluable. And T RSA has a young leaders group for emerging executives to network and share ideas with each other. How do you think these type of groups can serve as a source of inspiration for future industry leaders? I think it’s just great because not only are they learning and developing and and the main thing about learning is it doesn’t have to be 1 to 1.

 

Like, if there’s a mentor mentee relationship, that’s 1 to 1. But if there’s a group of young emerging leaders, they’re sharing ideas. They’re sort of riffing off of one another, and they actually benefit from the collective knowledge rather than just one. So I think that’s great. And and, also, I think that they here’s the other thing.

 

I had the chance to mentor some people. The mentor always learns and grows as a result. So those young emerging leaders are certainly going to learn, but they’re also going to contribute. One kind of cool example, I I spoke to a very large, bank, one of the top 10 banks in the world, and, they have a cool, council of of, of wisdom. And so the CEO, the c suite people who are in their sixties or whatever, have a group of millennials that are recent hires that they bring together, and they they do it every year, they they get a new group together.

 

I’ve got 20 to 30 people who are brand new to the industry and have a totally different perspective. And it’s not to sit there and mentor or teach those young people. It’s to learn from them. And so I think the wonderful thing about the young leaders group, to answer your question, is that they cannot only learn and benefit tremendously themselves, but they also have a lot to share and give. So you think the relationship can be beneficial for both people?

 

Correct. 100%. And how do you see technological advances shaping the workforce of the future? Wow. In such a big way.

 

I mean, it it really has has the, ability to impact just about everything from hiring to training to to oversight and leadership to to people’s ability to to create more value. You know, one thing is that as things become automated, as more manual activities become automated, I think it it it it’s makes it incumbent on the on the workforce to skill up, you know, to plus up their skills because and start doing things that that a computer or technology couldn’t do. But beyond that, you think look at things like augmented reality. You know, I’m in Seattle today for an engagement, but I think about Boeing who’s its headquarter here. Boeing is now using augmented reality to train not only pilots on how to fly in in people in difficult situations in the air, but even in their manufacturing processes.

 

Instead of having to train somebody on the manufacturing line in an actual live environment, they can create sort of a digital twin and allow people to to train using augmented reality, still getting the same benefit but in a much more effective way that can track and measure it and and the things you can’t do in a live setting. So I think that technology will continue to drive change in the workforce, of of, really, of all industries. Are there any technologies that are emerging that you think can potentially shape the laundry industry in the future? Yeah. I think Internet of things is a big one.

 

You know, if you think about even, actually, a cousin of mine owns a series of, of of commercial laundry mats. And, you know, probably and I’m just supposing, but, you know, he goes in and and and checks the things. And, you know, when there’s a problem, he’s he’s made aware of it. But with inter Internet of thing technology of sensors, you know, you start to understand, oh, this this this machine is is about to break. Let’s fix it in advance before there’s a problem.

 

Or they could look at yield management or they could look at, you know, not only maintenance issues, but but when it’s time to replace a part. And so I think that that that’s one that’s gonna play a very big role, sensors and Internet of Things. And I also think that you look at payment methods like blockchain, you know, that that’s another possibility that that may have impact in commercial audio settings. You have a varied background with experience as a jazz guitarist in addition to success in the business world. How does success as a musician help prepare you for the challenges of running a business?

 

You know, for me, being a jazz musician was the greatest NBA of all. Because when you play jazz, whether whether someone listening likes or or doesn’t like listening to jazz, it’s an amazing art form because it’s real time. So unlike a painter who can take some time off or correct a mistake, you’re you’re actually creating in real time. And so you have to make decisions in the face of ambiguity. You know?

 

Only 1% of the written notes on the are on the page, and the rest, you have to, like, make up as you go. And And so what it does is it forces you to get comfortable being uncomfortable. It forces you to, make decisions that are difficult even when you don’t know the answer. It forces you to learn how to recover when you make a mistake. And it also is a really collaborative environment.

 

A small jazz combo is interesting because there’s usually not one leader. There might be a band leader generally, but but in in the musical performance, you’re sort of passing the baton of leadership back and forth. So I might play a a solo on guitar and, you know, now I’m in a leadership role, but then I may be another sax sax player who’s playing a solo. My job now is one of support and collaboration. And so because of the fluidity and speed and and the dynamic, of a jazz combo, passing the baton of leadership back and forth, I think it’s a wonderful teacher for the business world because to a degree, that’s exactly what we do now in business.

 

We play jazz. You know, in the past, it was maybe that that of a symphony conductor. You know, one person in the center of the room who is the the the, the CEO in the business context, and their job is to just get people to play the notes exactly as they’re written on the page. And it’s all about accuracy and precision and alignment. But today, because the world is so complex complex and changing rapidly, I don’t think there’s such a thing as as sheet music written out and people can just play the notes and expect to win.

 

In other words, what’s happened is that the leadership metaphor has really shifted to that of a jazz combo. The small teams that are very fluid, that are taking responsible risks, that are that are injecting creativity, that are playing they have to perform at highest levels even though the notes aren’t in front of them. And so, again, I I I’m very passionate about the topic as you can tell, but for me, jazz music was a wonderful teacher for business. So it sounds like there’s a lot of teamwork that goes on. No question about it.

 

And and and and to me, it’s like cocreation. So if I’m playing jazz, I might play a little idea on a guitar, and then the drummer picks up the rhythm of it, and then the bass player plays around with it and takes it to the next level, and then the saxophone player interprets it. And so you say, where did the creativity happen? You know, the the what the the sax player ultimately did in that case was a cocreation activity, and that’s what we’re seeing more and more in business. It’s not one person has an idea and everyone else just mindlessly execute executes.

 

It’s it’s a cocreation process, which again is a wonderful teacher from jazz. And you have a pretty packed speaking schedule, but do you still find time to play the guitar? Oh, yeah. I absolutely do. It’s a deep passion of mine.

 

I play every week, and, I don’t perform every week, but I I perform now 3 or 4 times a year in in jazz clubs in Detroit. And how long have you been playing for? Well, I’ve been playing music. This is crazy. I’ve been playing music for 40 years, and I’ve been playing jazz for, like, 38 or jazz guitar for, like, 38 years.

 

I started on piano. And, I I went to, went to the Berkeley School of Music in Boston. I put myself through college playing music. And, again, it was it’s it’s a deep passion of mine and a wonderful teacher in the business world. So in addition to playing music, you’ve also written best selling books, led successful companies among other things.

 

What accomplishment have you found particularly satisfying? I know it sounds like a cheesy answer, and I I I I mean this in the most sincere way, but but the thing that’s been most satisfying is making a difference in other people’s lives. So, you know, I’ve been very lucky and I’ve had financial success and there’s nothing wrong with that, of course. But but when you when I get a call from someone saying, you know what? I listened to a speech you gave and and this was 6 months ago and and and now my life is better as a result.

 

That is where the real juice is for me. Someone says I read this in your book and and I I I got a promotion as a result. Or and even when I was running companies, you know, when I had someone come in and say, hey, Josh, you might not even know my name. I started here 2 years ago, but I was the first person in I just closed on a house. I’m the 1st person in my family to ever have homeownership.

 

So those are the those are the moments that are deeply rewarding. And and it’s funny enough, you know, I find that people who chase money, seldom get it. But but for me, I’ve always tried to chase doing the right thing and making a positive impact in the world, and then, the the financial returns come to a degree as a byproduct. Do you get a lot of feedback like that from the various groups that you’ve spoken to? I do.

 

I do. And that’s, you know, that’s that’s the most rewarding thing. Someone calls you and says, hey. Our sales are up 11% because of something that you said. Or or it’s kinda kinda cool.

 

Like, I I will sometimes share techniques, and and and and when I hear people using my language, it’s pretty cool. Like, I talk often about judo flipping a problem, you know, basically taking an assumption or a challenge and flipping it upside down. And, I’ve had people come to me and say, hey. I saw you speak 4 years ago, and I can’t tell you there’s not a meeting that goes by where we’re not in a board session saying, hey. What can we do to judo flip the problem?

 

So it’s neat. You know? And and I don’t say it in a boastful way. It’s quite the opposite. It’s more of an active service, but but to know that you’re making a positive impact in the world is is deeply rewarding.

 

And we’re all looking forward to seeing you speak at TRSAs Leadership Summit in Chicago. Can you give an overview of what you’ll talk about? Yeah. I’m gonna really focus on the 5 core mindsets of innovation. You know, having spent, 28 years in business myself and spending time playing jazz and starting, venture fund and and writing books and studying innovation for the last couple decades, What I’ve learned is that there are some very common patterns, common approaches of the most innovative people and the most innovative organizations.

 

So I’m gonna share these 5 core mindsets, which are directly applicable to the people in the laundry industry as well as in their personal and and and social lives. So I’m hoping that it will be a a a high impact engagement that’s not only inspiring, but I’m also gonna make sure that I leave people with some practical tools so that they walk away not only feeling good, but but with with a a clear action step of how to harness innovation in their own lives. When you were running businesses, what’s one of the biggest challenges that you faced? Well, one thing I see all the time is the success trap. You know, something is not working out well, you’re very quick to say, let’s change it.

 

But it’s hard, when things are working out well, when you’ve enjoyed success to to let go of what was in favor of what can be. In other words, people tend to cling to what’s worked in the past. And now now if we live in a static environment, that would be awesome. But today, we’re living at a rate of change like none other in history. So previous successes can actually become a trap.

 

There’s an underbelly to success that it sort of lures smart people into thinking that they should keep doing the same thing again and again. And so I see that as a trap that I’ve seen personally, and I see all the time in organizations, where people basically tend to overestimate the risk of trying something new, but they underestimate the risk of standing still. You think that’s the benefit of having a start up type mentality versus a more established company? I do. I think a primary responsibility of leaders is to put themselves out of business, and that’s that’s both organizationally and personally.

 

I said this as I was building my company every single day, that someday a company will come along and put us out of business, might as well be us. And so I think that there’s a there’s a real sense of that that, you know, you you need to be that source of disruption rather than having it thrust upon you. Well, that was the last question I have. I know that you have to get to to your talk soon, so I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today. My pleasure.

 

If you have any follow ups or anything, hit me at any time, and, I appreciate the conversation. Yeah. Thanks for joining me. Alright. Take care.

 

Bye now. You too. Bye. Thanks for listening to the first episode of the TRSA podcast, interviews and insights from the linen, uniform, and facility services industry. Special thanks to today’s guest, Josh Linkner, for sharing his thoughts on innovation both on this podcast and at TRSA’s inaugural leadership summit.

 

For more information on TRSA and how to become a member, please visit us on the web at www.trsa.org.